Curse

Ranger Jaap · Aug 22, 2010, 02:19 AM // 02:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stoneys Rock

Ever thought it could also be a gigantic pain to manage different classes/abilities/targeting.

Put it this way if they are all on the same spot, tanking will be a pain, he goes to attack and a monk skill is in same slot he wasted a heal and energy. He could spike it but healing is going to suck with the targeting unless he gives all characters a self heal which is horribly inefficient.

Still illegal but I'm just making a point.

This isn't like ultima online from yesteryear where you could control all the actions of all players properly. This game has far too many variables

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...8834-640wi.jpg

^ At least times have changed enough to let you get away with one computer. Ahh Rich Thurman..God bless you.

Well the way the guy with 7 accounts did it was with a tank(other person) and all his characters ele with searing flames.

majoho · Aug 22, 2010, 03:00 AM // 03:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrissie Quickdraw

Keycloning and Multiboxing is quite common in mmo's, I doubt it's illegal.

http://multiboxing.com/ & http://www.dual-boxing.com/ These sites have pretty much all the info about it.

Agree, I have yet to see any MMO where multiboxing is not allowed.

Voodoo Rage · Aug 22, 2010, 03:44 AM // 03:44

I'm picturing this whole setup and I feel really sad for the guy.

Yaksha · Aug 22, 2010, 04:23 AM // 04:23

Actually Multiboxing is a fairly controversial topic in a lot of MMO communities.

For most of the part I think it falls into the 'gray area' part of the rules.

Multiboxing itself tends to be good for MMOs, because it means you are paying twice (or 3x, 4x, etc.) to the company, and companies like people doing that.

On the other hand, it's rather debatable whether the techniques used to multibox are giving players an unfair advantage. You start with key cloning, then you move onto macros, and before you know it you're scripting attack chains, etc. Where do you draw the line? Where does the company / the rules / the community want to draw the line?

Realistically though, there's probably no harm to multiboxing if:
1. From server side, is there much notable differences between your actions over x accounts and the actions of x players over x accounts? If not, then chances are, you're unlikely to get caught.
2. Is the benefit you gain from having x accounts played by you, more or less the same as the combined benefit of x people playing those x accounts together? If so, then chances are even if you're noticed, they're not going to care much. After all, there's really nothing inherently unfair with them selling a single person x accounts and that person gaining x* benefits.

Is it 'right', I dunno. But for the people who think this is really sad, I'll have you know multiboxing a lot of accounts can actually be a lot of fun. It just depends on the game.

I don't know how it would work in guild wars, but I played another MMO previously that had in-game provisions for player made macros, scripts and add-ons (Runes of Magic). Their only real rule was no automation - so nothing that would allow an account to play without a human being in front of the screen/keyboard. It was actually a lot of fun creating a custom set of add-ons and scripts and multiboxing a full party from one computer, and watching the party steamroll through pve. To be fair, that was a free MMO. It wouldn't have been fun at all if I had to pay 8 * $15 a month all the accounts....

End · Aug 22, 2010, 04:47 AM // 04:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stoneys Rock

Ever thought it could also be a gigantic pain to manage different classes/abilities/targeting.

Put it this way if they are all on the same spot, tanking will be a pain, he goes to attack and a monk skill is in same slot he wasted a heal and energy. He could spike it but healing is going to suck with the targeting unless he gives all characters a self heal which is horribly inefficient.

Still illegal but I'm just making a point.

This isn't like ultima online from yesteryear where you could control all the actions of all players properly. This game has far too many variables

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...8834-640wi.jpg

^ At least times have changed enough to let you get away with one computer. Ahh Rich Thurman..God bless you.

lol ultima...

while yea its gonna be a pain to run all of them...for something like some of the speedclears with like 5 people with the same build that wanna try and have the same timing it could be pretty leet...

majoho · Aug 22, 2010, 04:53 AM // 04:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yaksha

You start with key cloning, then you move onto macros, and before you know it you're scripting attack chains, etc. Where do you draw the line? Where does the company / the rules / the community want to draw the line?

Seriously?

You really think somehow it's a slippery slope because I can't really see that.

All multiboxing is doing is forwarding a keystroke to several clients, this can be done either in hardware or software - it's really extremely simple and I don't see how it leads to scripting (botting in any way).

jonnieboi05 · Aug 22, 2010, 05:33 AM // 05:33

I am seeing the term "multi-boxing" being used in a way that confuses me. I was under the impression that "multi-boxing" simply means that you have more than 1 instance open?

I ask this because Majoho (the post right above this) said, "All multiboxing is doing is forwarding a keystroke to several clients".

Am I wrong on my definition of "multi-boxing" ?

Yaksha · Aug 22, 2010, 05:36 AM // 05:36

hmm... forwarding a single keystroke to several clients is simple.

But if you have ever tried to set up key cloning, there are always problems. It was a long time ago when I did this, but a few of the issues where:
1. For some skills, you don't want all your characters to use it at once. Instead, you want to 'cycle' between the characters. So pressing "1" will send it to the first client, the second time you press it it will be sent to the second client, then the third client, etc. And then back to the first client again.
2. Naive key cloning will cause problems, because if you click on the chat box and start typing. The keys you type will be cloned to the other clients as well. However the mouse click is not clonned. So you also need 'meta keys' set up to control the key cloning.
3. Unless you are multiboxing with characters of the same class and build, you have to either create the builds to 'match' (so naive key cloning will work), or you set it up so certain keys are cloned only to certain clients.

It was very easy to go from "when I press 1, forward 1 to all clients" to go "when I press 1, forward 1 to all clients, and forward 1-2-3 to these other clients". A good key cloning program will let you do this. Which basically lets you use one key to do different things in different clients.

When people say "key cloning", often they aren't talking about just *simple* "when I press 1, forward 1 to all clients". Because this just doesn't work. Just think about it... if you were controlling 3 characters on three clients:
1. Do you "simple" clone wasd keys? What if one character gets stuck? Do you clone mouse clicks as well for character movement?
2. How would you organize your task bar for a party of three characters that were different classes?
3. If you were controlling a party with a healer and a buffer, how do you manage key clones so heals and buffs can be cast on your own party members?
Key cloning programs foresee these problems and offer ways around them. That quickly leads to "1 button press = multiple actions" or "1 button press = different actions for different clients"

If i could press one button that makes my monk cast a certain enchantment targetting my warrior, my necromancer cast two enchantments, and my elementalist cast a preperation glyph. Do you think that's just key cloning? Or is it more like a macro or a simple script? Also what if something like this lets me time two actions much better than a human clicking two buttons? Is that any worse?

majoho · Aug 22, 2010, 07:41 AM // 07:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnieBoi05

I am seeing the term "multi-boxing" being used in a way that confuses me. I was under the impression that "multi-boxing" simply means that you have more than 1 instance open?

I ask this because Majoho (the post right above this) said, "All multiboxing is doing is forwarding a keystroke to several clients".

Am I wrong on my definition of "multi-boxing" ?

multiboxing means you have several instances (clients) open but you control them all with one keyboard.

It doesn't work very well with GW though, not sure if anyone is doing it at all but with something like WoW it works really well.

Here is an example with explanation http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iv5Ih...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNe1Z...eature=related

Notorious Bob · Aug 22, 2010, 09:34 AM // 09:34

Well playing on multiple accounts simultaneously if you have the hardware certainly isn't illegal or against the EULA and neither is launching multiple clients on the same machine - which provides no "in-game advantage or manipulates game mechanics" in any way.

If you're an ambidextrous octopus with money to burn then have at.

Using a single keyboard and routing keyclicks to multiple clients is ingenious. Does it violate the EULA, almost certainly not.

As for regular keyboard macros - they're certainly perfectly legal. Anet even handed out a Logitec G15 gaming keyboard as a prize a while back and I very much doubt that they told the winner "here's your keyboard, but if you use a macro in GW we're gonna ban you!"

Macros and botting are two very, very different things as has been discussed with Anet involvement, over and over again.

These threads always need cleaning up with a good dose of bleach to remove the scare-mongering and dis-information.

Ranger Jaap · Aug 22, 2010, 10:21 AM // 10:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Notorious Bob

Well playing on multiple accounts simultaneously if you have the hardware certainly isn't illegal or against the EULA and neither is launching multiple clients on the same machine - which provides no "in-game advantage or manipulates game mechanics" in any way.

If you're an ambidextrous octopus with money to burn then have at.

Using a single keyboard and routing keyclicks to multiple clients is ingenious. Does it violate the EULA, almost certainly not.

As for regular keyboard macros - they're certainly perfectly legal. Anet even handed out a Logitec G15 gaming keyboard as a prize a while back and I very much doubt that they told the winner "here's your keyboard, but if you use a macro in GW we're gonna ban you!"

Macros and botting are two very, very different things as has been discussed with Anet involvement, over and over again.

These threads always need cleaning up with a good dose of bleach to remove the scare-mongering and dis-information.

i was wrong about the Macro keyboard must have misread it somewhere was a long time ago this thread http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/e...post&p=5228642

Coast · Aug 22, 2010, 10:23 AM // 10:23

its better than fow sc this way :=D(8chances for obby edge per run)!

jonnieboi05 · Aug 22, 2010, 01:23 PM // 13:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by majoho

multiboxing means you have several instances (clients) open but you control them all with one keyboard.

It doesn't work very well with GW though, not sure if anyone is doing it at all but with something like WoW it works really well.

Here is an example with explanation http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iv5Ih...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNe1Z...eature=related

Oh. Thanks for clarifying.

I feel stupid now. I've always had people ask me in-game if I was "multi-boxing" whenever I had 8+ accounts running at the same time and I always said "yes". >_<

zzzz... I guess my answer for now on will simply be "no, I am merely running 8+ instances".

Zebideedee · Aug 22, 2010, 04:30 PM // 16:30

Wow, is that a for real pic. Stoneys? All those computers and a puny little monitor. Heh, sell some comps and buy a tv. Although judging by that set up the person would burst into flames if they came into contact with direct sunlight if they left the house to buy a tv

The Mountain · Aug 22, 2010, 04:31 PM // 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Notorious Bob

Well playing on multiple accounts simultaneously if you have the hardware certainly isn't illegal or against the EULA and neither is launching multiple clients on the same machine - which provides no "in-game advantage or manipulates game mechanics" in any way.

How does it not provide an in-game advantage? I used to run dungeons solo...with 5-7 accts leaching the drops. The entire run would take me a couple extra minutes because of lag, etc. but I would have a significant improvement in rewards.

jonnieboi05 · Aug 22, 2010, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Mountain

How does it not provide an in-game advantage? I used to run dungeons solo...with 5-7 accts leaching the drops. The entire run would take me a couple extra minutes because of lag, etc. but I would have a significant improvement in rewards.

And what would be the difference between having other people playing the accounts for you and giving you all the loot compared to YOU doing the task of micro'ing all of them and giving yourself the loot anyways?

BenjZee · Aug 22, 2010, 05:02 PM // 17:02

Ive heard of multiclients but this is actually new to me, how have i never thought of this being possible.

jonnieboi05 · Aug 22, 2010, 05:09 PM // 17:09

IMO, if you can sucessfully micro all of your accounts without the usage of a 3rd party program, like what I do, then I give you your kudos and all the more power to you.

It's not match manipulation, it's not botting, it's not rigging your client, it's not doing anything inappropriate or against the EULA/RoC/ToS.

Edit: And in case if anyone is interested, this is what my desktop(s) look like when I run just 8 accounts:

And in case anyone is wondering, the right side of the desktop cuts off like that in the picture because it's only a 19'' monitor (1440x900). The left side is my main monitor (28''; 1920x1200), which is obviously much bigger.

Stoneys Rock · Aug 22, 2010, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zebideedee

Wow, is that a for real pic. Stoneys? All those computers and a puny little monitor. Heh, sell some comps and buy a tv. Although judging by that set up the person would burst into flames if they came into contact with direct sunlight if they left the house to buy a tv

Haha. Not really that was the setup of a gold farmer for ultima online which came out in 1997. He set it up so he could periodically farm the gold in the most efficient way possible. Apparently it would heat up very badly so the room was extremely temperature controlled. Back in those days it was profitable and not illegalish to sell the gold on ebay.

Sorry going off on a tangent.

http://terranova.blogs.com/terra_nov..._the_farm.html

Thats where the picture came from.

As for the topic I don't think multiboxing would be an efficient method, like I said before. The differing skills needed and the differing roles would be too hard to manage.

majoho · Aug 22, 2010, 06:49 PM // 18:49

multiboxing isn't viable in GW because GW doesn't have an ingame scripting language, you can't really control several characters easily like you can in say WoW.